1. Date Dispute Happened January 12, 2021 2. Are You The Buyer or Seller I'm the Buyer 3. Total Transaction Value $100 USD 4. Other Parties Username mathewmj1977 5. Method Used To Pay or Receive Payment Credit Card 6. Other Parties Email Addresses No information available 7. Other Parties Payment Email Address No information available 8. Other Parties Messenger Username Discord: artecha#6210 9. Provide All Chat Logs and Additional Information Below Please pay attention to this comment! Despite the high rating which is fake this service is fraudulent! Accounts that sell these scammers are disabled after 5-7 days! For all claims, the support service constantly feeds you with its promises but does not fulfill them! We strongly do not recommend using the services of this company because they are scammers! They promise 12 months to replace the accounts but in fact the accounts only work for a few days and can no longer be replaced! The company managers do not respond to our claim to return the money! We ask the PlayerUp team to remove this seller from the fact of fraud and also because he transfers all his customers from your site to social networks where he performs his fraudulent actions! We are ready to provide all the necessary information all screenshots of correspondence as well as video correspondence with the information data of this seller! Be careful not to fall for the tricks of scammers! These are scammers! You can get acquainted with the evidence by following the link https://www114.zippyshare.com/v/1e4RDi57/file.html
We look forward to proving that you are scammers! Let all people know that you work dishonestly and now it is the property of all visitors to this site!
As per the record shows, the Buyer was asked for 48 hours for final working replacements. He had a very SPECIFIC region-based Spotify order and it needed extra attention and support. Spotify Premium, we usually deliver, are not region-specific and can be from any region but this Buyer had a specific demand. His order faced an issue, and we explained to him the reason every time (we can give proof of our explanations if the Buyer denies our claim but unnecessarily we do not want to spam the thread). Accounts face the problem now and then, we offered him alternatives but he wanted to stick to his own region, which caused a delay with replacing his orders. There was an issue going on with the card company relating to the region he asked for. We sent his last batch with multiple card providers to ensure that we can track which cards work and which cards do not. After we realized one specific card was working (because that batch IS STILL WORKING, we can provide proof if the Buyer denies it), we explained to him the situation as always. We offered him to provide the replacement from the SAME CARD PROVIDER for which the previous batch is still working and asked him 48 hours. But he refused and started threatening. We tried to expedite to 24 hours and were unable to deliver. As a result, we initiated his refund earlier soon as our team came online. The refunds are processed through usual procedures and cannot be expedited by any whining and threats. This was the summary of what happened with the order. Now regarding the Buyer himself, anyone can go to his profile and clearly see that he is marked as ‘High Risk’. Anyone using this site clearly knows what that means. For any new seller, who just joined PlayerUp, we want to explain briefly. ‘High Risk’ means any Buyer who will start threatening, using inappropriate language, leaving multiple feedbacks for the same issue to spam the website, etc, if he faces any issue. This Buyer himself has had a tendency to keep threatening and using inappropriate languages multiple times. We are dealing with digital services and issues happen every now and then. Any experienced party would know this. As part of our service, we try to provide support and EXPLANATION, every time an issue occurs. Whereas ‘High Risk’ buyers like him who are just dabbling into these services and do not know how it works, just tend to start threatening non-stop to make a point. If this Buyer was in any way professional like he boldly claims, opening a dispute should have been a valid point enough to start a discussion on PlayerUp. But he has been leaving multiple feedbacks and using any means necessary to get his attention, even if that means SPAMMING the website. This is why we would also urge other Sellers to avoid dealing with Buyers like him. Rest who is legit and who is not, anyone can go to either of our profiles and check the feedback records (FYI all feedback on PlayerUp are verified by Middleman and nothing is fake). On an ending note, as we discussed with the Buyer yesterday, if his order was not delivered in 24 hours, his refund was supposed to be initiated. We already did that and it would be processed using the standard channels. Any spamming and threats will not expedite it. But just like always the Buyer started his threats and inappropriate language in Discord, and since his order was already canceled, we opted not to respond anymore. So we are unsure why exactly he is spamming everywhere literally saying the same thing. If he has something to say, he has said it in his first post. He doesn’t have to keep spamming the website and waste everyone’s time until his refund is processed.
Just like any other 'High Risk' buyer, he will also slander Sellers with any made-up claims. We NEVER asked this person to purchase our services from ANY platform (PlayerUp or others whatsoever) on our own. He HIMSELF chose the platform based on his needs, and he HIMSELF came up with his preference. We are not naive enough to ask a 'High Risk' buyer to purchase our service from anywhere other than PlayerUp, but if he himself comes with his preference, we also do not deny our buyers with their convenience. Images of Proof: Also for your kind information, we PREFER our Buyers to purchase from PlayerUp because this is the ONLY platform out there available that provides Seller-Protection against Buyer-Fraud (yes this is a real thing) and hence provides Sellers peace of mind. 'Some' High-Risk buyers have a tendency to ask Sellers to sell their services out through some other platform, and as soon as they get their services, they request a chargeback from their bank and try to scam the seller by taking the product and the money. This is very common with digital services. And in case the Seller is able to take the accounts back or any minor issue happens with the order, those buyers just start threatening and harassing the sellers with reviews from multiple fake profiles. For all those cases, we always expect our Buyers to choose PlayerUp as the first place to make their transactions. This protects both the buyer and the SELLER. And we don't have to prove this to anyone because the PlayerUp team knows that from the beginning of our trading history, our direct sales through PlayerUp has only INCREASED on a monthly basis. So you can talk about whatever nonsense you want, you are doing nobody any good. First fix the reputation of your OWN profile, before you start slandering others with your made-up claims.
You have no proof that you are making a replacement within 12 months under the contract with you an order was made for 50 accounts and you were required to make a replacement within 12 months the accounts worked stably for only 30 days I want to note that this real accounts no premium subscription is not! You make new trial accounts every month and replace these accounts with those that no longer work! You never pay for a premium subscription and sell accounts that are not currently monetized! My main complaint is that after the fall of accounts in December, I had to fight with you for almost two weeks in order for you to make a replacement for us! Indeed, the replacement was made after two weeks of intensive negotiations! But after seven days, all accounts dropped again! We asked you for a new replacement but in the end you deceived us you set the replacement time yourself and did nothing we asked for a refund you ignored us! I want all buyers who read this post to understand that they will face fraud! Your product that is stated in the ad does not correspond to reality if you go to your profile then negative reviews are becoming more and more every day! Many of these reviews say that you do not provide a replacement and people who want to place an order can read these reviews! Personally, I do not need to prove anything and feed me with promises, too, it is not necessary according to your conditions, the replacement must be made within 36 hours at most, you yourself say this in your messages, but in the end we had to wait for a replacement for more than 10 days, thereby incurring financial losses due to your unprofessionalism!
If the plaerup team is interested in receiving a full video with all the correspondence from the very beginning of cooperation since November, we are ready to provide it! Once again we warn all buyers that you will never get a decent replacement from this seller he knows how to tell fairy tales beautifully but in fact you will lose your money! This post was made in order to tell you about the problems with this seller that you will face big problems and you can not count on honest work with this seller!
First you say it yourself that we provided you replacements and then they stopped working too. Now you are saying we have no proof that we provide replacements. You are contradicting yourself and making stuff on your own, just like you always do even in your conversations and everytime we spend hours busting your delusional claims. Another made-up claim is all accounts having stopped working, 10 accounts are still active (unless you deliberately messed them now). You have already checked it yourself, so don’t make a fool of yourself in the public because your own “proofs” will prove your own delusional lies. 10 accounts out of 50, means 20%, which were made with a different card are still working. Second of all, all trial accounts lasts only 30 days MAXIMUM, irrespective of any region. You merely purchased one order from us and suddenly you claim like you know our trade history with 3k+ customers. We are not here to prove anything to you, for our 3k+ buyers, who are already enjoying our services, they know it and have EXPERIENCED it on their own that only a few stocks of our accounts face problem after 30 days, many of them last 45, 60 and some even 90 days. So please if you know the “magical trick” of making trial accounts for 60-90 days, please we REQUEST you humbly to share with us. We are willing to split the profit 50-50% if you know of some miraculous way of making “free accounts”. Also for your information there are people who will even spend there money if you are willing to make trial accounts for 12 months and there are countless websites like playerup, playerup, PlayerUp etc where you can find these cheap accounts. Only problem is seller disappears after 2-3 months. And another “made-up” claim that you have, trial accounts are also not FREE. Unless of course you own MasterCard or Visa and have unlimited supply of working VALID cards. If you don’t, you need to BUY active cards, which comes with maintenance fee and purchase fee. NOTHING IN THIS WORLD IS FREE! Wake the hell up you delusional brat! Even if you have a card of your own, go make a trial account and brag all about that you made it for free, but ignore the fact that the card that got you the free deal, was itself not free. PEOPLE LIKE YOU HAVE ZERO CLUE HOW THE REAL WORLD IS WORKING! You just whine and live in a delusional world of made-up believes and your own fairy-tales. So even those sellers who sell trial accounts, they pay a price to get the cards (if you disagree, please SHOW US this magical way of getting free unlimited accounts, go ahead knock yourself out). And for us, who have sold accounts lasting upto 90 days to our customers, please show us how to get a trial for more than 30 days. Go ahead make an account and show us your magical video. Thirdly, you keep pointing out about the legitimacy of PlayerUp and its reputation/feedback system. You need to wake the hell up. If a Buyer purchase a service and leave a positive feedback, and we do not fulfil our 12 months guarantee, HE CAN GO AND EDIT THE FEEDBACK even after 12 months. There is no time bound of editing and modifying or deleting feedbacks. So if your “made-up” delusional claims were true, our previous Buyers would have swamped our profile by editing their past feedbacks. But nobody did because they are still enjoying our services. About you final made up claim that we are getting more and more negative ratings, we can do nothing but laugh (and other users on PlayerUp as well). 19 negative reviews from salty customers like you (disregarding 2 spams you posted multiple times) vs 3000+ positive reviews. Everyone can see on their own whose profile is legit and whose profile says ‘High Risk’ scammer. Please learn to do the math and then come here with your claims. On an end note, your order faced an issue, and just like any failed order, the refund was initiated. It will be processed and you will get it in your bank soon. Until then you can keep whining with your made-up blames and make of fool of your own self because 3000+ people disagree with you.
I will respond to your messages that contain a lot of personal insults and this in this case is completely inappropriate! I still insist that you are scammers and I will explain why! First of all, I did not make one order from you, but several! Therefore, I have the right to judge how your team works! I am dissatisfied with the work of your service dissatisfied with the fact that you do not make a replacement! I am still sure that you are using test accounts for sale because change them every 30 days some of them do not work even for one week! After your replacement, the accounts dropped after seven days! After the second replacement, the accounts also dropped after a few days! When we asked to make a replacement for the third time at the time you set the replacement was not made and you did not get in touch this can be seen in the correspondence! Personally, I think that you disabled our account in order to resell them to other people! I am sure that we are not the only ones who have encountered this problem! Does your ad say that you are selling a 12 month subscription? This is proved by my screenshot that I attached to this post! In fact, proof that you are selling test accounts will be provided by me on February 1 when receiving reports on monetization! I am sure that these reports will show that your accounts are marked as "FREE TRIAL" In case you don't know since September 2020 Spotify has structured all its reports by adding an exact description of which accounts were used to listen to your music! But that's another story! You can talk beautifully and insult as much as you want but in this message you have declared a refund! In order for this to happen, it was necessary to leave several negative reviews and also write this claim to you as a seller! Before when we asked you to make a refund, you ignored us! We will not prove anything to anyone we are sure that people who have watched the screenshots and video recording of our correspondence see that we have tried to enter into negotiations with you for as long as possible but you have deceived us every time! I do not know about 3000 + satisfied customers but with us you did mean and ugly! Especially when you get personal and write personal insults in a dispute! If you do not return the money, people will find out about it and we will definitely keep everyone who follows this dispute informed. We have several times given you chances to correct the situation with our order, but every time faced with lies every time faced with some ridiculous excuses allegedly you have one problem - then the second problem! You think your customers are fools? Deceiving your client is a sure way to ruin your reputation! There is a good saying reputation is built over the years and lost in 1 second! That's what happened to you!
As we said previously in a dead note to you a refund was initiated we have proven enough to you and not willing to prove anymore we have built a trust selling on this platform between us, the buyers and the Administration of playerup. Your accusations and claims will not change the fact that we have buyers for over 2 years now using our Spotify that you are complaining about. A single issue with you will not make it an inevitable fact. Also, before you keep repeating your self in an infinite loop a fraudulent activity is when we have taken your money and did not provide a service or a refund when we failed to but, we provided a refund and this should end your case here. Last two things I would like to point out is that this buyer always wanted a prompt response INSTANTLY even if he messaged us at 3 am when we are off working hours. Any delays in response the buyer will consider it us ignoring him which is not true. We never ignored the buyer and we will gladly offer a proof to that. Especially when an earlier incident happened* and we informed the buyer about our working hours and how we process requests in queue so we may need more times to resspond at some times. This is what exactly happened here when this buyer was requesting a refund as soon as we came online we got to his request and started talking "PROFESSIONALLY AND POLITELY" that is when he chose to use insults at first so you should have considered your own insults before talking about ours which we did not personally use any insults of any sort like you did when we started processing your ticket. Also kindly note when we were handling his ticket non of our team members knew that this buyer has already started spamming everywhere to get attention. Also the buyer mentions we ignored him and then he had to leave feedbacks to get our attention which is again not true please check the timing in screenshot below of when he sent and when we responded before even knowing he has already started spamming everywhere Also please note the insults that the buyer is so offended from you can clearly see who is insulting and who is not. This will be our final response here until you have been refunded this dispute will be updated so mods will close it *many incidents happened with this buyer even before him actually buying a single account everytime he sent and we took our time to address his query he started threatening with leaving reviews if we fail to deliver him # coupons or give his query the priority he demanded and we also have a proof that this buyer had the intention on doing this from the beginning simply on any matter that dissatisfied him whether may it be valid or invalid. Regards
Once again, you're lying! This dispute and all the comments I left about your company were made after we stopped any negotiations with you! I never texted you at 3am if you notice I texted you at 2pm! That's a lie! Yes, I sent you to hell after you ignored me for 6 hours and it happened during the day! Why do you deceive people make yourself look like an love you? I have contacted the support service of the payment system and am waiting for a response from the refund! If the payment system says that you did not make a refund this information will be published here! And in the end I want to say that I am amused by the way you are bombed! You really burn because you turned out to be a fraud! I have every right to send you on this erotic journey because you've been driving me skidding for a very long time!
We received a response from the FreeKassa payment system! The payment system support service claims that there was no refund on the payment! Payment system operators are asked to contact the seller to make a refund. Transaction number: 2002806126452 Once again you are deceiving us by saying that you made a refund! We have saved all payment information about all transfers through all payment systems! Check the transaction number and make a refund otherwise we will require to delete your account and recognize you as a fraud!
Forgive my colleague here who just responded while I was offline. The level of your ignorance of overlooking what is being said to you and still being deluded with your own made-up blames is ludicrous. You make 1 blame in a message, in next message we address to it, then you change that blame into something else or say something else that literally discredits what you said at the first place, LOL. Let me address each and every point of you so we both can save some time. - First of all, don't even start who is using which language. We have countless images of our conversations where you used abusive/obscene language and used threats countless times. We NEVER talked to your inappropriately during your order. We are only debunking your claims here in this dispute using your own tone by levelling up the ground here because your order has already been canceled. - You can be sure of whatever delusion you have in your head, but until you have a proof, you cannot make a blame. Like we already said before, even sellers who sells trial accounts, those accounts do not come in free (check our previous message for details). And for sellers like us who does not using our method, even that does not come free. Nothing in this world is free, everything has its cost, hidden or otherwise. We never denied that your accounts didn't last for more than 30 days, WE NEVER SAID THAT. What we are saying is how our orders with other customers has underwent, you have neither any idea nor any right to point that out. If those customers agree with you 1% about any of your blame, they can go and edit their previous feedback. But 3000+ customers disagree with you. - About the third set of replacement, we will not post same image again, your previous image can be used as reference. We have had this conversation several times before, and both of us agreed that there will be no more threats whatsoever but a professional level of communication (we can provide images if you deny, but we know you won't because everything we say is a fact). Go ahead and check the time. We said we would try to provide the replacement in 24 hours. And before 24 hours had even passed, your threats began again. And we stopped responding to you after, because we knew it would not go any other way. If you disagree check your own images. While our team is offline, you say we have 3 hours left. 1.5 hours later you begin your threats again. So yes we canceled your order and stopped responding to your non-sense anymore. - Yes you are right, at least once in your life. We do not advertise our product as '12 month subscription'. We neither advertise nor claim our product to be of a 12 month subscription. Have you ever guessed why? Take an educated guess, if you are able to. If not, let us give you a hint: Spotify DOES NOT have an annual plan, it only offers monthly plans, you nitwit. Neither us nor any other seller out there can give you a 12-month-subcription plan BECAUSE IT DOESN'T EXIST. Come back to the real world from your world of made-up erotic fantasies. - About your even hilarious remark of, 'You can talk beautifully and insult as much as you want but in this message you have declared a refund! In order for this to happen, it was necessary to leave several negative reviews and also write this claim to you as a seller!' LOL. We already explained to you in our very first response you delusional brat that your order was canceled and refund was initiated and we stopped responding to you because of your threats (as we always informed you everytime you threatened us). You are no superhero, Mr Sherlock Holmes. You did not solve any case using your tactical move of 'destroying' our company. If you given some time to read, you could have saved all of us some time. But too bad, you are just blinded in your own delusions. - About your final confusing remark of not knowing why 3000+ customers prefer us, let us explain it to you why, so you can stop harassing other Sellers here or anywhere. Every company has a tendency of running into a salty customer every now and then, we are no exception and you are a living proof. And why does this happen? There are people who learns about some magical trick of making some money through a new business model (streaming in this case) and they invest all their money into it without even having a clue how it actually works. Soon as they hit one setback, they blame it all on others thinking that everyone is trying to push them down from their 'glorious success'. So they start whining and start blaming others for some made-up blames because they follow a simple mantra, 'If my company cannot be successful, I will bring everyone else down'. Other 3000+ people who actually knows how the real world works, they leave feedback based on a genuine opinion. On an ending note for this message, let us break this down to you: We advertise our product Customers purchase it We work our best to fulfil it, sometimes even go through lengths that we make 0 profit at the end just to make sure our customer is satisfied If some problem occurs, we try to solve it or try to provide alternative options If everything fails, we refund the order and be done with it If you think this is the definition of 'scammer' as you keep crying all over, please open up a dictionary and check and come back again.
Are you seriously this ignorant? Do you not understand time zones? We referred to the time based on our location. Just because your location mentions different time, does that mean we are lying? Even a 8 years old knows about time-zones. How old are you exactly mentally?
Again are you going to make a fool of yourself in the public with your utter ignorance? You do realize that this was an international transaction made between 2 parties having their banks located in 2 different locations. Do you know how it works and how many financial parties are involved? Your FreeKassa or whatever payment support team send that payment to our own payment processor which finalizes the transaction to our bank. We have sent the request to our payment processor company and as soon as they completes the request there, they will receive a reference number from your FreeKassa or whatever you bank is linked with. Once that receipt is generated, ONLY THEN, your FreeKassa will get a clue about what has been initiated. Right now we can only click on 'Refund the transaction' button with our payment processor. We are not liable for how much time they take to process it. DO YOU REALLY THINK INTERNATIONAL REFUNDS ARE PROCESSED WITHIN SECONDS? For real? Do you have any idea about anything? You don't know about how Spotify works, you don't know how financial institutions work, and you claim to be such a big business person. Have you never initiated a refund for an international flight or something similar? You call the customer care, ask to cancel the order. They initiate your cancellation request and it takes 48-72 hours to generate the receipt. Before the receipt is generated, you cannot expect your bank to have a single clue about the refund. GROW UP FOR GODS SAKE! Do you really think if we make a fake claim that we initiated the refund, PlayerUp will close this dispute like magic? WE HAVE TO PROVIDE A PROOF AND UNTIL THEN THIS DISPUTE WILL NOT BE CLOSED! We are not ignorant like you to know that. We only said it is initiated, never said processed. And we only said it so you stop whining and WAIT UNTIL WE SEND A SCREENSHOT OF THE RECEIPT. If you cannot even understand that, there is nothing else to say here.
Now we truly understand why you are marked as a 'High Risk' buyer. Do you really think we will bend down to your threats? What is the point of making demands through private message when a dispute is already publically opened? This clearly looks like the work of a scammer here. We honestly do not deal with your FreeKasaa or whatever. We received our payment through our payment processor and WE WILL ONLY REFUND DIRECTLY THROUGH THAT. We are not refunding to your whatever Kassa here. Whatever time is taken by our payment processor, that will be taken by them using their own standard protocols. Once it is done, we will send the receipt PUBLICALLY and get this over with. If you cannot seem to wait for an obvious thing to happen, we can also cancel that request and refund you through PayPal, but it has to be announced publicly. @Help @Support We are not responding to any threats sent through private messages or a refund through a channel we have no idea about. If the buyer needs refund through any other channel, he needs to provide that channel PUBLICLY not in secret like a scammer. If you want your refund through PayPal, then let us know. Or else wait till it happens through proper channel.
Unfortunately once again you show yourself as a cad and as a person who tries to mislead everyone who reads this dispute! Are you saying that there is no annual subscription? Take a look at this screenshot from Spotify's official website!
This is another lie! The purchase was paid for on your website through your payment system which is connected to FreeKassa! Now you want to tell me that you don't use this payment gateway? You know perfectly well that it was paid for through this gateway! Now you claim that you do not know about this payment system! Only scammers do that! I can see your reputation falling lower and lower!
Everyone now understands that you are trying to fix your damaged reputation but you are not doing it well! You admitted that you didn't deliver a replacement! To be more precise, you delivered it twice within 14 days! Which indicates the poor quality of your product! Do you want to say that such a product suits more than + 3000 customers? Perhaps this is your speculation and not all buyers are as principled as I am! I'm tired of your lies I'm tired of the fact that you are constantly trying to deceive and get out of this situation in which you look at least ugly!
First I am going to take a few minutes trying to stop laughing on your last 2 messages. You are right, someone is truly 'falling lower and lower'. Every single message you say try to 'debunk' us, ultimately proves that you are just a noob who just dabbled into Spotify business a short while ago and is now super frustrated because you cannot figure out how to make a profit out of it. Ok I will cut this message short for YOU only because rest of the world already knows about the facts how Spotify works, 1) Spotify has no annual plans for all their offers. Now before giving us your 'screenshot proof', let us clarify a few things for the noobs like you. That annual plan you just showed is for INDIVIDUAL ACCOUNT. It doesn't come with family account. We pay the charge of 1 family account and then add 5 customers to it and hence splitting the subscription charges and making a profit out of it. EVERYONE KNOWS THAT! WE HAVE NEVER SOLD AN INDIVIDUAL ACCOUNT NOT ONCE SINCE OUR TRADING HISTORY! If you have the money to purchase individual account that costs EUR 120 per account, then go ahead BE OUR GUEST. Don't be so cheap looking for $6 account. Are you really this naive? How does a company make a profit by selling a product worth of EUR 120 for $6? Every single account that we sell has been sold as a part of family member plan. Even the ones sold to you. If you have so much issue with the 'cheaper' accounts, please go ahead and have the MONEY in your pocket to buy a EUR 120 account. We do not sell that. We make profit by selling FAMILY account. When Spofity comes with an offer for that, please send a screenshot. If everyone start following your business rules, every single company will go bankrupt like yours. 2) Again you made us laugh so much. Please use a tool called 'Google', which is free of charge and will not hurt cheap people like you looking for EUR 120 account at $6. FreeKasaa is a Russian company. The transaction processed through it goes to a pseudo EU bank account. That EU bank account is then linked to our Turkish bank account (in case you took some time to notice, we are based in Turkey and everyone knows that). The refunds and everything is processed through our Turkish bank account. It goes back to the EU account and then it will be updated to FreeKasaa or what party you paid to. This is how digital sellers work, by working ANONYMOUSLY. If you were not a noob, you would know how to use multiple layers of transactions to mask the user identity. Bitcoins is not the only way for anonymous payments (in case you know what that is). 3) Before you make any more fool of yourself with your 'half-baked' business knowledge, we say this one last time because debunking you is even making us feel bad for you now. The refund is INITIATIED from our bank, it will reach yours in due time, when we receive a receipt, we will send it to you here. If you do not like to wait, you have the option to choose PayPal and we can also do it for you. But you need to announce it publicly, not through private message like a fraud. 4) Talking about reputation is a guy with 'High Risk' badge and literally 1 successful transaction, against someone whose reputation has been VERIFIED by 3000+ people. We don't even need to debunk anything here. If you don't want to humiliated yourself by showing that you are just a unprofessional noob with literally no knowledge of business, please FOCUS ON POINT-3 because even we are getting tired of explaining to you simple facts.
